Daniel Scocco is a Programmer Entrepreneur

This is the 3rd part of the conversion between Avi Arya and Daniel, They both are digital experts and they have a lot of experience about how the digital world work.

Read Part -1, Avi Arya and Daniel

Read Part -2, Avi Arya and Daniel 

Avijit Arya digital marketing Expert

avi arya digital course
Avijit Arya

Avijit Aryain fact, I interviewed a 14-year-old kid from India who started a Kickstarter campaign and he got money and he developed a website where he does sneaker training 14 years old.

Daniel- yes so I guess both can work the only thing that I guess it would be hard work if, is if you decide to write or to do a project about your passion and your passion is too small it's a niche that no one else cares so let's say ah my passion is 1800 stamps about blond-haired kings like no one else likes that then it's going to be hard and that being said if your passion is somewhat popular that other people share the same passion I believe you should be good to go and even if you are not passionate about a specific topic but you recognize after doing some research that that topic is underserved.

daniel scocco founder of azpop or yellow whatsapp cheat
Daniel scocco

I believe it's not totally possible to make a profitable project there even if it's not your passion especially because you don't need to be the one creating the content you can outsource the content creation for example one of my website that one of my websites that did well in the past in fact it's one of the few that i still own is a website about english tips and i created it because i wanted to improve my own english so like it's called dailywritingtips.com and so the first five or ten articles i wrote myself but after that i realized that if i wanted the website to grow and to be popular i needed an expert to create the content and i'm not an expert in english so i hired an english phd and she she started creating all the content for me and the website grew a lot it became very popular i believe it at its peak it was receiving a couple million visitors per month wow yes today today is down to one 1.5 but i'm not an expert in this topic yeah i have someone that creates the code i just manage i just manage it so that's possible as well we don't need to necessarily to that is just follow that actually.

Avijit Arya- I'm going to be putting because this is going to be edited like an online course like a tutorial so all your amazing points on how to start and all of that we're going to have a ticker running so people can keep going back and say this is what I wanted to learn.

Avijit Arya- my next question is I don't have money or I have very little money and I need to start making money I'm writing content either I'm doing it myself or I'm outsourcing it I need to start making money I can't wait for a million users to come in at what stage can I start going and asking people you know to advertise on my site and how does that work.

Daniel- the number in question is going to depend on the segment of the niche for example a website that talks about credit cards or investments probably only need 10,000 visitors per month or so before you can start charging for advertising because each of those visitors is very valuable for a potential advertiser if however you are talking about let's say pokemon or some other online game then you might need 100 000 monthly visitors before you can start doing advertising and that being said when i say advertising here i'm talking about going directly to the companies and asking them to sponsor the website if you decide to go with google adsense then you can just copy and paste the adsense code in your website and you are going to to see a number that's going to reflect whatever traffic you have if you have 1000 visitors you're going to make $20 or $30 okay and that might be enough to keep you uh working to pay for the hosting costs then once you grow to 5000 it's going to become 150,200 so adsense allows you to grow that advertising revenue gradually and one point related to this and also relating to growing websites in general and making money online is that to get started these days you don't even need a website right, my uncle a couple of months ago he came to me and said he wanted to start selling he produces guitars right for this handmade guitars and he said i want to sell those guitars what kind of website do i do shopify what do you recommend and i told him no website only instagram all you need to get started is instagram because it's so popular here in brazil i'm sure in india as well pretty much anywhere in the world that all you need to get started is an instagram account you start putting some content list whatever you had for sale there and put a link, to your whatsapp so if people want to buy or want to learn more they start chatting with you on whatsapp and you close the deal on whatsapp you send a payment link and then after that you worry about the website i agree that going forward website is essential but to get started to like to start feeling the market to talk to the first few customers or interest potential customers you don't even need the website it can be the second step right 

Avijit Arya- i've got one more idea for your uncle he can go to a z pop and register himself over there good point yes good very good point very good point okay so when i'm creating this website uh and i'm building my traffic on it and i'm reaching out to advertisers and potential people and all of that i'm thinking aloud right now as i'm talking to you should i run a paid if i have the budget i run a paid campaign with a big contest a big giveaway or something or use a tool right like up viral where i say you come in here we'll help you run a contest something so that you get two three thousand people to actually come and experience it you run a festival or you run a webinar something coming to your website and all of that and at the end of two three hours or a full day webinar you give four or five brand ambassador of power users you give them some kind of an award and you say that so some you know how do i build fast engagement because if i keep on writing content and waiting for it to come up it's going to take time if i have some dollars on paid marketing and using something like up viral or a contest app you know can i do all of that and instantly tell you know 100 famous people or secondly do you think it's a good idea if i have a small niche thousand two thousand people whatever i reach out to mashable or techcrunch and all of that and i say you know can you feature me it's a good great story you know i believe in superheroes last night hulk came in my dream or you know or or i have six dogs and they're my co-founders i don't know people make crazy types of stories to reach out to the press to tell the press that this is the story you need to feature so i'm just trying to find a faster way to success is there anything like that.

Daniel- it's hard to accelerate this process some points here first if you do have the time if you can't wait I believe that SEO is a great strategy so keep building keep working on the content keep getting links from other websites and then over time Google is going to start sending you more and more visitors and if you have the time why do I say that's great because pretty much your investment is going to be your time so you don't need to have the money you just have to have time and it's.

second it's SEO i like seo because once you put that initial time to create the content you optimize your website uh once it starts ranking on google google is going to keep sending your visitors for years for example my writing tips website it's been more than a decade uh right more than a and this is going to 12, 13 years and google keeps sending month after month google is going to keep you sending those visitors pretty much free of charge so over the long term if you make it work is a great return on investment better than paid advertising right but the downside as you said is that takes time for for a brand new website usually i say that you need to wait at least six months until you start seeing good results so a good number of visitors uh and probably you need to wait six to twelve months before i start making good money connected to the video strategy that i know you like and i love video as well these days that this video is very important, these days whenever i have a website to promote using SEO be it the blog of my company for example of our mobile app be it the other websites i have the best content strategy i use these days is what i call a hybrid strategy where you create a video right and then you launch that video on youtube, facebook, instagram and then you transcribe that video and you create an article a text article based on that video why is that good first because we're going to reach all the channels youtube, facebook, instagram and google search right in fact if i ask you well now i already gave away the answer but if i ask you what's the largest search engine in the world it's google what's the second search engine in the world youtube exactly, it's incredible how much traffic you can get from that and it's much less competitive than google than the google search engine so that's the main benefit and the second benefits that you're going to only have to create one piece of content which is this initial video it can be a video tutorial or whatever it's that you do uh you create it once and you're going to have the two formats ready to go the video and the article that you're going to transcribe so it's very it's very effective in terms of time timing and not you can create the video yourself and send it to your content writer and they can do all of the other stuff as well exactly in fact there are even tools that are going to do that automatically that are going to transcribe some work okay uh the the result the final article is acceptable you could use that automated process and publish it i don't think it would be bad if you have time you send to someone and they are going to give the final touches on the formatting of the text yeah but that's a very good strategy i try to use whatever i can.

Should I start four or five websites together?

Avijit Arya- I like that so when it comes to this you know you built 100 plus websites and you sold many and kept many so like you know they say place your bets some will work some will not so should I start four or five websites together and see which one works.

Daniel- just one from the small correction not 100, i would say 50 50 for sure but i'm not sure if i crossed 100 websites but 50 yes it's a good question, i would say yes it's okay to do that in the initial period so let's say you after Covid you lost your job or maybe you are on lockdown, so you are you have time available you want to do something online you don't know what i believe it's totally fine to start two three maybe four and monitor how they go for one two months and then you track how much you like to work on each of those projects and what kind of feedback you are getting from visitors but after some point and you are going to be have they want to decide if it's two or three months but at one point you're going to have to decide and focus on one of them got it because by far one of the the largest mistakes i see other people making and that i did a lot in the past as well is lack of focus okay you need to have focus on at least on the project at hand that you want to grow and after it reaches a certain critical mass uh i guess you could make maybe put it on autopilot get someone to manage it to create the content and you can start launching new projects that's totally fine but in the early days it's going to require most of your attention otherwise it's not going to have a good chance of becoming a successful project.

Avijit Arya- perfect that makes so much sense so if i what about a lot of people today want to become uh like a website which is like a publisher site so i talk about in my on my website we've been creating a new website where we're talking a lot about because we talk about videos and digital marketing through videos we are interviewing the founders of all the tool companies on video and transcribing it and talking about the features plus an added bonus because the founder of the tool company is talking about it we talk about the features and then we put an affiliate link and then we are using you know whatever seo and paid to bring people over here doing webinars to bring people to the website they see the website they get free trials for more most of these tools so what how what do you think about this kind of model a lot of people are saying i'll write i'll do a website about mobile phones and then i'll promote samsung or nokia or whatever and then they'll give me an affiliate commission what do you think about that kind of stuff.

Daniel- like i like the the affiliate marketing model very much i have done it i have used it in the past i guess it can work as you said it needs to be in a niche where you are going to have affiliate offers available sure in good affiliate offers available but these days you have several marketplaces like sharesharesale.com for example and many others where you can join check what is available in the marketplace and then you sign up and start promoting anywhere the commissions in fact if you think about it you could even use such marketplaces such affiliate marketing marketplaces to get an idea for a potential project right let's say you want to do something online you don't know yet what you want to do let's see what are the top performing affiliate offers maybe it's a diet course maybe is a mobile phone repair course find someone that are is working well in those marketplaces they will tell you which is the conversion rate of each offer so find one where the average and they even give you the average uh epc earnings per click so they kind of estimate basic based on all the the traffic they see they can estimate how much you're going to earn for every click you refer to that company or that product you pick one that is large enough where the conversion is good the number is good and that you know that you might be able to send those traffic because maybe you know the topic or you know someone who does and then you start the project on top of that i believe it's a nice idea to get started.

Avijit Arya- I like that you know were you a teacher ever no because you put everything in such bullet forms it's easy to understand and it's easy to go through the interview you know or maybe you understand the question and you know you bring it out very clearly it saves me a lot of editing right I guess maybe it's because I'm a developer and I like to think in very structured terms yeah okay so when it comes to there are a lot of people I've spoken to they've said there are tools on share or sale or whatever which are which give 100, 300, 500 as commission so they are able to run paid campaigns on google and they're still profitable and yeah so so yeah that's a good thing to keep in mind I'm going to make a note of it and talk to my team.

Daniel- one point if i may be about affiliate marketing yeah one common mistake i see people making is too for example either run the campaign right let's say you are going to create a to run a paid advertising campaign they send those clients straight to the landing page of the product right why is this a mistake because you are spending money a couple of reasons two reasons first you are spending money but you are not retaining those customers you are sending the customer away if you are spending money keep the customer for you so first send your own landing page get the contact the email address for example and after that you send to the product because then you make try to make money and build an email list at the same time got it right and the second benefit is that if you just send the customer the potential customer straight to the landing page we should we can say that it's a code lead right it's you are not trying to sell that person maybe the landing page is not great but if instead of doing that you first enter your website sign to your emails letter and then you for example by using a video why not you explain to that lead why that product is great you are going to increase drastically the chances that he's going to buy it got it so if you're going to do affiliate marketing keep those customers for you also because once you grow your list maybe you stop liking that product you find one that's better you can switch because the customizers you are first we are referring them to product a now he said hey guys forget product a i just found product b much better so buy here you have the customers and second because you start developing that relationship you explain why you like that product and you have much higher chance of convincing them to buy if indeed it's a good product.

Avijit Arya- that's a fantastic idea so what you said instead of selling and sending them directly to their landing page their website send them to your landing page add a video explain it because then the value is coming from you and they're more likely to buy from you and you're building your email database and you can then you own the customer and then you can sort of sell products further and somebody's already bought something from you you know they're likely to buy from you again exactly so when it comes to building an email list what are your top best strategies.

Daniel- first and foremost you need to give something away of value if you just ask hey give me your email address because i want it in the future I'm going to send you good stuff it's not going to work i mean you're going to get some subscribers but your conversion rate is going to be low uh so you need to give something of value hopefully of a lot of value right away so it can be an ebook it can be a course an online course it can be an email sequence where you are going to teach him, explain to him something that you know that's valuable for that potential subscriber so that's a must otherwise your conversion rates are going to be low.

The second landing page matters so it needs to be at least somewhat beautiful clean at the same time and with a clear call to action right, thankfully you don't need to spend money on that because there are many templates available free templates or if you want to get expensive if you do have a budget for 10 bucks you go to teamforest.net or whatever template site you prefer and you are going to be able to purchase a very good landing page, in fact, there are even websites like activities.com they even have the templates right away but then they charge you if I'm not going to charge you a monthly fee so maybe you don't want that but either way there are many tools you can use without spending too much money that you can create a very nice looking landing page that's the second tip.

the third one would be to make sure that you keep those subscribers engaged because there's no point in building your email list if you are not going to send quality content to them to contribute to that relationship over time because just as important as the overall number of subscribers you have is the overall engagement of those subscribers if someone has an email is with 100,000 subscribers but only 10 percent of them are going to read those emails and I'd much rather have an email list with 30,000 subscribers were 50 50 is going to open and listen to what I'm saying because, in the end, I'm going to have 15,000 active or engaged subscribers.

Avijit Arya- that's a fantastic idea of having more engagement so that you tell them stories and bring them interviews do whatever is of value to them not up to you because most of the time we say oh you know what I think I love superheroes I'm going to give you two superheroes I don't want the superhero maybe I just want uh to hear my your interview with daniel and that's more value to me than this toy or whatever so that is this simple strategy you would use how would what would be your strategy to get more app downloads.

Daniel- app downloads about it's a good strategy if you can afford unfortunately we cannot so we had to come up with other ideas uh but that's a very important point because we are experiencing first hand i had other mobile apps in the past but this one is the largest one by far we want to reach 1 million downloads by the end of the year so we have a lot of a large very large ambition for this project initially for the first six to 12 months pretty much all of our downloads was were paid advertising but after that we started to realize obviously talking to other people and understanding more the our case we started to realize that you cannot rely on paid advertising and talk about mobile apps exclusively for products is something completely different uh you can sell a product just using com paid advertising that's totally fine if the numbers are there it's fine but for a mobile app and especially if you want to grow it as a company right as a startup that's going to grow and to be sustainable you cannot rely 100 on paid advertising forever sooner or later you are going to hit a wall where it becomes pretty much impossible to keep your growth rates because the important part here is that for a startup to be successful to be able to raise money uh the growth rate must be constant or accelerated so every month you need to grow faster than the previous one and if you are using only paid advertising to do that you need to have an immense amount of money in the back within the bank which is rarely the case so inevitably you need to start thinking about organic growth channels or road engines and that's what we started to do some months ago so six months ago three months ago 100 of our downloads were paid and today that number is down to 80 today 80 percent paid advertising, 20 organic where is the organic downloads coming from two places mainly first to our website so we launched a web version of the app initially it was just mobile now. it's mobile and web as well and google is starting to index all our pages so for example if you search for plumber in a new day right what's up of columbus in new delhi our pages are starting to rank there and so google is sending those those sending us those visitors and consequently the downloads and then we also launched a feature which is working really well which is a kind of a member gut member program so our app is free both for the users and for the professionals how do we make money we offer we charge the professional optionally only if he wants a monthly fee so that he becomes a premium professional so he goes to the top of search results and has some other perks uh but for the professionals that cannot or do not want to pay we allow them to share the app and for every 20 downloads they generate they earn one free month on the premium plan we didn't know if this were going to work but it worked really well in the first three months it generated more than 100,000 clicks on those referral links

Avijit Arya- I was just going to say have you tried the dropbox idea yes which is very similar right yeah and it's working great for us uh so answer your question initially it was paid advertising inevitably we needed to do that today we also use SEO and member that member to get downloads in the future what we want to explore we also want to explore allowing users to get discounts if they share or recommend the app and we also want to try using influencers so Instagram, youtube, Facebook people that have a large following and have them promote our app and do some kind of revenue share or simply pay for the advertising to see if that converts as well but we still are not testing with that mainly due to lack of time too many stuff to do and not so not many hours in the day.

Avijit Arya- right daniel this has been a fantastic interview and here I asked you a question you put everything in the structure and personally for me I learned I asked questions that my audience would learn from but today I've got so many ideas for my own you know like I said we're building a website to be one of the big ones of the most important resources for all video-related tools and so I got a lot of ideas from there and plus uh how old are you if you don't mind me asking.

Daniel- 36 you look 30 maybe or 28 or something do you play soccer thank you I did use to play soccer but now my knee does not allow me anymore okay very very bad knee okay no so you?

Avijit Arya- no i don't play i like to play squash once in a while but my knees stopped so my latest new hobby is that you know i'm getting an e-bike hopefully it comes in the next few days and so it's a you know i can go in the mountains and when i get tired i can do the e-bikes so my next this thing is going to be biking i live here and i go back and forth delhi and vancouver so vancouver i'm here right now and so vancouver is all hills and all you know it's all about biking it's all about hiking and it's all about fitness and all of that so i'm enjoying that journey so daniel thank you very much for your time i really appreciated this uh like i said we have an agency that does digital marketing for you know for for large brands and uh in india we have a we have a we have a very strong following of about 200,000 plus people i also founded an organization which is india's largest organization for digital marketers and so i'll add you i'll give you a link to those facebook groups and all of that anytime that anything we can do for you just to say thank you for your time as a friend in india you want to launch a product you want to say i be you i want 500 people on a webinar i want to introduce my product get 500 people i want to launch my new book or whatever just remember you always have a friend in vancouver and in india all you need to do is send me an email and whatever we can do we will do for you.